Tuesday, September 6, 2011

Clearing the air.

Recent events have come to my attention, which make it clear that it is time to shed a bright light on ugly words that have been allowed to thrive in shadow. After thinking on it, consulting trusted friends, and making sure I had all of my facts straight, I have come to the conclusion that it is better to speak up, publicly, on record, and have my cards on the table rather than continue to have my name and reputation maligned in private.

Rumors have been flying around for far too long now, and it's time that they were flushed out by light and transparency. Mutual acquaintances have let me know that another designer is badmouthing me to people I respect, in a way that makes them uncomfortable. Other friends on a city-specific crafting group have told me that the same designer is claiming to have a "copycat stalker." Still more, customers have relayed to me that she has implied that I am copying her work. This might seem like small potatoes or mindless drama to some, but when my name is being maligned to people I respect, I must speak up to defend myself, both as a person and an artist.

So, time for some facts! The following list is a verifiable timeline of some things that have been in controversy:

___________________________

-- My line of copper electroplated leaf necklaces, featuring leaves with a cascade of gemstones, pearls, and crystal, launched in October 2008. They were re-issued in 2009, and have been every year since, featuring predominantly in my Autumn update.

-- I had also done a Midsummer Night's Dream line in February 2009 and a lumi-glass "Delicates" collection in October 2008.

-- I launched vintage Halloween image pendants with asymmetrical chain danglies in October 2008.

-- Also included in the October 2008 collection was Black Widow, a crackled agate necklace with spider. There were also matching earrings. Both have re-occurred every year since.

-- Yule '08 update consisted of silvered branches, silver electroplated leaf necklaces, and blown glass ornament earrings. They debuted as a collection of silver and ice, and they have repeated every year since.

-- My "Guess the Gemstone" contest debuted in March 2009 and continued throughout the year and into 2010.

-- In July 2009, I debuted a line of intent necklaces which I had been researching/developing for a few months for the seller Whitemagic. About that time a) Whitemagic passed on the line (and then formulated a cheaper knock-off line which she's selling to this day), and b) For Strange Women was featured on the Etsy front page. I put the 10 or so prototypes on my site for sale, as they were already complete. The other designer then contacted me and said there had "been talk" that my pendants were too close to For Strange Women's customizable herbal pendants. I explained that I was having a hard time finding a small bottle pendant that was water tight and therefore safe to house oils securely, as corked bottles would not work for my purpose. It was a lack of options at the time which presumably led to us choosing the same bottle for our talismans. At any rate, I still haven't found a suitable replacement, so I haven't put any new ones for sale since. Sometimes that's just the right thing to do.

-- The first teasers for my faery wings were in January '10. The techniques were learned from Cynthia Thornton's Enchanted Adornments, and although I have been steadily developing my own wing line with crystal and color, iridescent materials, and differing wing shapes, I will forever be grateful and glad to give her credit for Woodland Wings tutorial, and for inspiring me to work with resin.

-- My PMC leaves debuted in July '10. Not too plussed over this, since leaves are common for PMC, but just in case you were wondering.

-- Halloween '10, posted in early September, included silver bat wings, both necklaces & earrings, crafted with wire and resin. Note the shape.

-- The first iteration of 'Persephone Descending' was sold in July '11.
___________________________

No, I am not copying her. There's no way I could be, unless I've got a time machine under wraps. And no, the TARDIS won't fit under my bed. To prove that I have not been copying her, one must look no further than our Etsy sales histories. Match up the first listing/sales dates of the similar items. Surprising patterns may emerge. Trust me when I say that my sold item history on Etsy speaks more strongly against my copying her than anything else I could possibly say on the matter. Although customer quotes like "I wanted to buy those earrings from her, but then I realized I already had the same pair from you last year" do a pretty good job, too.

To my knowledge, Etsy sales histories cannot be deleted or tampered with, so when in doubt, check to see who posted/sold it first. Do some digging, verify the facts for yourself. It's all in the open through an unbiased third party. And hey, sometimes when you search through histories, you find really interesting stuff.

Also, I often post previews on my Twitter and Flickr account. Many things, like my faery wings line, were previewed weeks to months ahead of launch. All of this is public record and dated at the time of upload.

To her claim that I am "targeting" her: jewelry making, especially on Etsy, is a small backyard. And when an acquaintance who is selling on the same platform as I sell does something untoward, it's easy to see and notice, as it's in our shared backyard. To boot, she used to be on my friends-list, where we had been mutually friended. Her updates would show up on my friends-page. It's hard to "target" something that shows up over your morning cuppa joe, you know? Now, we've not been friendly for two years now, but I do have customers/friends who email me when something looks suspicious. Sometimes it looks suspicious to me, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes, it's a matter of common supplies, and some times it's more concerning than that. All I can do is present what factual information I have, and draw my own conclusions.

One of the main reasons I've not discussed this in the open for so long is that I am aware that we have a not inconsiderable customer base overlap. Please know that I am in no way asking anyone to take sides or calling for any action. I simply wanted to provide information and defend myself against unfounded accusations.

Barring major incident or need of clarification, I consider this post to be my final word on the topic, and I swear whatever oath necessary that my words here, to the best of my knowledge, are 100% factual and true. If I find that I have misconstrued a fact (launch dates, etc), I will amend the post to reflect that in good faith. If you have a question about any particular item-- either timing or inspiration-- please don't hesitate to ask. You can comment here or reach me at christina at sihayadesigns dot com.

Thank you so much to my friends and customers who have supported me. Your words and the fact that I have you guys watching my back means so, so much to me. I cannot thank you enough. And thank you to those of you who helped me pare this down from a rambly, emotional behemoth into something concise and precise. :)

Commenters: when commenting, please note that absolutely no name calling, of either the other designer or myself, will be tolerated. You are free to question my account, or ask for clarification on things I may or may not have mentioned here, but I will have no name calling. Period. When in doubt, speak about actions or facts, without sweeping generalizations as to character. That is what I have tried to do here, as I feel it is the most fair and honest.

Now, let the drama be done. I have Halloween shinies to finish, and that's far more important!

47 comments:

acousticdryad said...

Good on you for airing this out. I've been following this for however long it has been going on, and have always been a faithful Sihaya customer and loyal Sihaya supporter. You are legit, and you shine above all the drama that jealous persons try to create around you.

the craftress said...

This is Jill from For Strange Women- just to clarify, I have had some issues with my intellectual property being copied, but you are/were not one of them, and I no longer make those pendants anyway. I am not sure where the "talk" originated about that (not from me) and it is fine with me that you make yours as they look to be a similar idea but not derived from mine. thanks

Christina Allen Page said...

Hi Jill! I had my suspicions that you were not part of the talk, but it was hard to tell. I'm glad, anyhow! In any case, I had the opportunity to sniff some of your wonderful solid perfumes while I was on vacation in CA. They're lovely!

chella said...

Good for you for handling this so eloquently :) Regardless of others' action or decisions, it shows your integrity. Hope this blows over for you and all ends well :)

wldhrsjen3 said...

Ugh. What an ugly, painful situation - and yet you have handled it with class, grace, and courtesy. I have always been impressed with your jewelry, but I can also say I am impressed by your professionalism.

Sorry you've had to endure such maliciousness. :(

And thank you for making such beautiful things ~ I have a pair of earrings and a treasured necklace from you and can't wait to buy more shinies! <3

atriel said...

There's a reason why you're my most favorite jewelry designer - and the above post is but a small part of why.

whisperwords said...

Goodness, I hope this is the last of this! I know you've been incredibly frustrated, and for good reason. You're an amazing designer and it saddens me to see your hard work is being copied and even worse, that someone is trying to ruin your reputation and put your artistic integrity into question. Hopefully this puts an end to all of this nonsense!

wilhelmina-d said...

I'm sorry that a post like this was necessary, but I am glad you stood up for yourself. I'm a devoted fan of your jewelry and know how much effort, time and love you put into your pieces. I'll definitely continue as a customer and would happily provide a reference should anyone need one!

Alicia Dabney said...

It's no secret that you are talking about me in this post or that you have regularly talked about me over the past couple of years. I guess now is as good a time as any to attempt to put this bullshit behind us.

Did I just step into a time machine? Because this seems like the type of post that would have surfaced a year or even two years ago. So why now? It's really odd to have moved on then suddenly find that the other party is still running in a race that to the best of my knowledge (save for random emails of concern, which were merely filed) no longer existed in the present time.

It seems to me that most of the facts you present here are the very same ones we spoke about privately in November 2009. Toward the culmination of that discussion, after I sought to address your concerns one by one, you said:

"I am so, so happy we are getting this out into the open. My frustrations with our overlaps were completely in opposition for the respect for you I have as a person and fellow artist, so I'm glad we're getting the air cleared. I completely believe you when you tell me that none of the similarities were intentional, and I look forward to differentiating our lines, both for our benefit and for our customers."

I expressed directly to you that I had many concerns of my own with regard to your work, including but not limited to uncomfortable similarities, identical supplies (dismissed by logic), concepts, and interesting timing of redesigns (NOT the designs themselves, but sudden new banner redesigns and shiny new cards in possibly questionable succession to items of mine or mentions of my intentions toward such). When we spoke directly to each other about taking a step back and /mutually/ working to differentiate our work, I said:

"On a related note to both of us differentiating our work, my wire-wrapping was moved up in schedule for this very reason, because of the number of people contacting me with concerns. Because my similarities to your work were unintentional, it took a while for it to occur to me that you were probably dealing with the same scenario on your end. I'm so sorry."

A portion of your response which is pertinent to the above quote:

"Regardless, if our customers are starting to ask if we're copying one another, it would behoove us both to differentiate more. I am not at all planning to do the more ornate wire wrapping that you've started, and it looks amazing. But taking a step back from looking at each others' work seems to be a very good step in the right direction. I will continue to tell any who inquire that I absolutely don't think that any similarities in our work is intentional. I really would like to walk forward from this with positivity on both ends. I don't want to lose my friendship with you, because I feel that you are an honest person with good intentions."

I thought we had had a productive and amicable discussion, though I later learned that around that very same time you made a locked livejournal post to talk about me, which mutual friends saw and reported. I feel you should have either informed me that you had made a post about me in frustration or else let me know that our discussion didn't fully handle your concerns. (Continued)

Alicia Dabney said...

Two months later, you took it upon yourself to censure me by nitpicking the way I chose to credit things. Even as "friends" it was not your place to edit me, especially because I felt the credits were there…just not to your own liking. In response to your public allegations, a number of people contacted me to let me know that they appreciated being credited; they were happy with amount of credit I had given them from our collaborations. Conversely, no one has ever contacted me to complain that I did not give them any/enough credit.

A short time after you unfriended me in January of 2010, you released ornate wire work (despite your knowledge and statement about it in our private conversation) which held enough stylistic similarities to my own wire work that I was contacted with concerns several times last year. I merely filed them away. I made a personal vow to step away as completely as possible, and as such even the TeamBPAL questionnaires were set up so that I could simply copy and paste your two URLs without having to visit your site when I posted your spotlight.

When we both agreed to take a step back from viewing each others' work in November 2009, I actually took that step back and let go of the excuse that I needed to check up on you. Additionally, when you began to censure my work around January 2010, I welcomed the severance of ties. It felt good to cut and move on so that I could no longer wonder that you would continue to get territorial over something I created from my own heart and inspiration. It's been a breath of fresh air.

While I had hoped that we would have a clean cut, it took several months before reports of your thinly veiled potshots and posts about me even began to settle. As such, it was likely an equal number of months before I gained the wisdom to stop reflexively kicking up the dust from our conflict after each time I learned of something new you had said about me. THAT WAS LAST YEAR. In fact, this year has been blissfully quiet and peaceful until just recently when I heard concerns that your pumpkins now have spiral vines which I began doing in September 2009, that you've crafted a wire crown over a gemstone pendant which I began doing in July 2010, and that your leaves now have wire embellishments which I designed early last year and released in August 2010. *shrug* I file each set of concerns away and forget it. I didn't decide to make a big ol' post in my art blog, nor did I take it to livejournal to name-call behind quasi-closed doors, nor did I make a thinly veiled potshot on Twitter, or anywhere else beyond one mention to one friend in private email, whom I trust.

In the past you and I have both wondered if the other was copying. We have both excused things that can be attributed to issues of supply, materials, and similar interests. However I'll oblige your playground bully set-up by blindly answering the only two issues I see in this post that are new to my eyes. My most recent Persephone release is a redesign of one I created in June 2007 (go ahead and check my blog for the design comparison). Many of my Persephone pieces have gone through name variations including Proserpina (November 2008) and the use of the word Underworld in the title (November 2009). Additionally, I honestly don't see the similarity between your bat wings and my bat pendants…not even the wings within, which I sketched by hand as a template. It's Halloween and a bat, for fuck's sake, and it isn't news that we both do wire wings. My bat pendants mirror the Luciernaga and Beekeeper pendants which I've made since January 2010. They are a clear and natural progression of my work. Additionally, I have added color shimmer pigments to my wire wings from the get-go in January 2010, and I have hand painted color into the wings as early as June 2010 in the Illumine festoon. I'm flying blind here, Chris, so forgive me if didn't address your concerns. I looked at my pieces and guessed at what the problem might be. (Continued)

Alicia Dabney said...

For clarity since the comment width cropped my Google Analytics urls in the above comment:

referrals from your blog
referrals from your site
referrals from your livejournal

And

Visits from Pikesville, MD

Christina Allen Page said...

Alicia, my timing for posting this has a lot to do with things you've said, badmouthing me in private to people I respect, and posting about me.

Here is an example of that posting.

"I want to offer a perspective that you may want to at least consider.
I have had my own issues with a copycat. She was a former friend, so
she knew my work and had exposure to my personal blog where I would
show my current work, sometimes talk about ideas, goals, and upcoming
concepts. My suspicions mounted for over a year of "coincidences" in
various things like photography style, phrasing, style of
descriptions, banner redesigns, and derivatives of my actual jewelry.
I chose to take a left turn with my creations and picked up wire work
to get her off my heels (which she, "randomly", started doing a month
later, and again with PMC). At that point, things were getting obvious
enough that over a dozen people, independently of each other,
contacted me with concerns. That's when I knew I wasn't imagining it.
It gets worse, but this is the tl;dr version of it.

Here's the catch: once she got wind that I suspected her of things, we
had a difficult but honest private conversation about the issues and I
thought, naively, that things would get better and we'd both step back
from each other. HOWEVER, that very day she began a smear campaign *on
me*. Suddenly, I am the onecopyingher. For the past year, since last
autumn, has made various blog posts and Tweets that either plainly
(with links to my shop) or passive-aggressively (thinly veiled
potshots) make stabs at my ethics, reputation, and artistry. Funnily
enough, I haven't been to her site at all this year, and Google
Analytics shows her on mine once a week.

Etsy is rife with problems like this, some worse than others.

I just wanted to offer a summary of my story so that you can consider,
and make certain, that you are okay with all the possible outcomes of
taking this more public. I don't want a potential turning of the
tables on you to blindside you if it happens. I was definitely
blindsided.

--
~Alicia"

(continued)

Alicia Dabney said...

It is just me, or are you going to continue deleting my third and final comment on this matter, which also addresses the letter you just posted?

Alicia Dabney said...

(Third try, perhaps?)

I think it is beyond ridiculous that you are still bringing these things up after all this time. Now that I have gained some wisdom from this entire situation, I feel it is counterproductive and in poor taste to even insinuate that someone is copying another without cold, hard, irrefutable proof. I now avoid that whenever possible, and have for some time.

I honestly don't know what more we could possibly still have to talk about especially with what little respect you've made clear you have for me, but this reads distinctly as if you and/or those who are feeding you information are intent on whipping up things which were rightfully dead.

To set the record straight, the SF Etsy email that Lynae provided to you and which I hear you've further provided in a name-calling livejournal post about me is from A YEAR AGO. September 17, 2010, to be exact. It was sent as a word of wisdom and potential support to a team member who was having some legitimate IP issues. Not only was that post motivated by support for a teammate, but it didn't name you, and was also posted to a team that—save for one—had no former knowledge or any way to guess who you were. That is in vast contrast to your numerous potshots and postings about me over the past couple of years, which were made to a varying audience of mutual friends and shared customers.

I understand that you have also used a screencap of your Google Analytics reports to try to prove that I have been visiting your site. Let me clear this up. Having my sites show up with a referral in no way means that I have personally visited your sites. By way of comparison, here are some screencaps from my own Google Analytics with similar referrals from your sites.

referrals from your blog
referrals from your site
referrals from your livejournal

I realize that this does not prove you have visited my site any more than your screencap proves that I have visited your site. However, I do find it interesting that even though I have never known or shipped to a customer located in Pikesville, MD, there are plenty of visits with high page-view counts from that location to my Etsy site. Even still, I am comfortable with recognizing that this isn't absolute proof that you have been visiting my site. I wish you could extend that same respect.

visits from Pikesville, MD

If you want to keep this alive, fine. But I am going to try to stay out of it and continue to move on as I had done. I have better and more positive things to do with my time than obsess over what a former friend/jewelry artist is doing or saying or making long after the conflict should have gone to its grave.

Christina Allen Page said...

Now, let me address each of the falshoods you put forth in that writing, and then I will address additional issues you brought up in your comments.

Claim: I copied your photography style, phrasing, & style of descriptions.
Truth: I never copied your photography style, because I'm not really sure what you're referring to. We both take pictures of items lying down and on neckpieces. We use *different props*. I don't know what else you could be referring to, because it's not like you has a distinct photography style (like hyper contrast or soft pastels, which I've seen with other sellers on Etsy). We're both kind of point and shoot, capture the item accurately. Although you has on occasion chosen to use the same backdrop paper as me. Specifically, the one with a predominant "carte postale / post script" markings - it is ubiquitous on Etsy now, but my point is that I had already been using it for some time when you began to use it, which visually conflated our brands. Again, this is verifiable by our Etsy sold orders if you wanna go look. Check around summer '09 - early '10. As for phrasing and style of descriptions? I'mma need to see the receipts on that. I'm an English major, I write all my own copy, and I do not plagiarize.

Claim: I copied your banner redesign.
Truth: Go look at your banner. Now look at mine. Do they look... remotely similar to you? Yes, last year, I redesigned my banner. My old one was through my former graphic designer, STypecreative. It was heavily steampunky. I don't do steampunk jewelry very often anymore. So instead I made a new banner that more accurately described my brand and the kind of jewelry I create. It's still there today, though I reserve the right to change my own shop banner in the future, as the need strikes.

Claim: I copied her by going into wirework.
Truth: You were doing wirework before me, it's true. Your "signature wirework" (your wording) began in December 2009, with a series of pieces derived from tutorials from other Etsy artisans like Galadryl, Julida Designs, and Danagonia, some of which, you're right, I did not think you credited correctly. I started developing wirework skills when I was hired for my job at Terra Firma, a metals and beads shop. I was hired in September 2009. Part of my job is to do demos and create inspiration pieces/ tutorials for the customers who shop there. I demo wire (wrapped and forged), basic stringing, and resin. There was nothing "random" about my developing wire skills-- if anything, I considered it getting paid to learn!-- and I have no idea why "random" is in quotes, as it's certainly never something I claimed. And I love wirework, so I incorporated it into my own work, posting some forged wire pieces in early 2010. I probably wouldn't have gone into wirework had I not gotten that job, but I'm glad I did. It's just another skill in my skillset, which I hope will keep growing.

(ct'd)

Christina Allen Page said...

Claim: I copied you by going into PMC.
Truth: To the best of my recollection, we debuted silver PMC leaves very close to one another, mine coming first. Because of my *own* experience, I know that you probably had been looking into PMC for some time-- stetup and costs are high. You gotta get a firing method, textures, sculpting tools, and various metalworking tools. It cost me something like $700 at the outset just to get *the basics*, and well over a month until everything I ordered arrived. So it's not like it's something you can buy and do overnight on a whim. There is a lot of planning involved. The fact that we did it so close, I'm guessing, is coincidental. We had not been livejournal friends for some time at that point, and as your journal is locked, I have no way of knowing how long you'd been planning to do PMC. In any case, there's no way I copied you.

Claim: I have done work derived from your work.
Truth: *points at the above timeline* Yeah, no. The timeline actively disproves that, and suggests the inverse.

Claim: We only talked because I "got wind" you suspected me of copying.
Truth: A blatant lie. (http://sihaya09.livejournal.com/1051897.html) I contacted you after your Yule '09 update to discuss similarities where your work had followed my work in '08-'09. You claimed that you was pregnant with you daughter and not online a lot during the pregnancy and after, so you hadn't been looking closely at my work. You said this is why several of your works presumably resembled mine, and that it was coincidental. At the time, I believed you. You did have concerns at that time that a few pieces of my work was too close to yours-- the two examples you gave was that my Black Widow too closely resembled your Tangleweb (Black Widow had been a revisit that premiered in Autumn '08 and thus predated Tangleweb by a year), and a bracelet with skulls on it, though you had sold said bracelet off-site and did not have a photo to reference. We left that conversation on a positive note, agreeing that the similarities were coincidental. I see differently now.

(ct'd)

Christina Allen Page said...

Claim: I made thinly-veiled posts/tweets about you.
Truth: True, mostly. Every time you'd copy something else, or do something else shady and unethical, I'd post about it to a filter. A couple did contain links to the copied stuff I was talking about. Mostly they didn't, though, because if they knew who I was talking about, they didn't need links. They already knew. As for "thinly veiled"? I assume you're talking about this: (http://sihayadesigns.blogspot.com/2010/03/when-imitation-is-not-sincerest-form-of.html), which wasn't actually about you at all (http://sihaya09.livejournal.com/1093383.html). But if the shoe fits. I guess. I will say I never took aim at your artistry. I've said time and again, you're good at what you do. Your finished products are usually gorgeous. Which makes the long string of "similarities" even more sad, imo.

Claim: I look at her site once a week.
Truth: I'mma need to see the receipts on that. I do check occasionally, to be completely honest. One reason is that customers send me "hey, this looks suspiciously close to yours" emails. The others is to double check that what I'm posting in my update isn't too similar to what you're doing, because I don't want to give your ammo to claim that I'm actually copying YOU.

That said, you will probably see a spike in my viewing her sites (blog & Etsy) this week because I looked at a lot of things (sold items/her guess the gemstone contest's timing) in order to verify that I was accurately presenting information.

Claim: You doesn't look at my site.
Truth: Here's the year-to-date Google analytics on that.
My google analytics show 47 referrals from your blog (where you have never linked me) and 29 from your livejournal, year to date. If they don't mean anything, then neither do yours, and hence your claim that I visit your blog "weekly" is a falsehood.

(ct'd)

Christina Allen Page said...

Now for other claims.

Claim: I am copying you by doing wired briolette caps ("crowns").
Truth: When you started to do crowns (your Snow or Ice Queen pendants, Yule '09), you were using another popular wire tutorial on Etsy. You have since branched out and made many of your own, which are, as far as I can tell, unique. I occasionally get stones that are too big to put in my hammered frames. Therefore, I sometimes use wire to create an ornate bail as well, based in swirls, which are not based on yours at all, and are visually distinct.

Claim: My leaves have wire embellishments.
Truth: True. And they are different from yours. Just as you have evolved your designs through the years, adding new elements each season, so have I. I have steered clear of embellishments (coiled wire, for example) that you have used to make yours more distinct.

Claim: My "Persephone Descending" is based on an old necklace of yours.
Truth: Your "Then and Now" post (http://aliciadabney.blogspot.com/2011/09/then-and-now.html) confims how different my necklace (http://www.etsy.com/transaction/53982177) looks from the one you "revisted." Your "revist" turns a one-part festoon into two parts (A V and a swirl chandelier, like mine). It takes the garnets from five to three, exactly where MY garnets are. And it conflates the names, changing "Persephone" to "Persephone's Descent..." All of the changes you made in your "revist" only made it closer to my "Persephone Descending" except the change to copper.

(ctd)

Christina Allen Page said...

And to finish:

You: "nor did I [speak of this] anywhere else beyond one mention to one friend in private email, whom I trust."

This is a blatant lie, and you know it. I know it, you know it, people who have read your LJ posts on the matter know it, people on Twitter who know that it was me you were referring to with the word "lame" know it, the SF Etsy group knows it, customers to whom you've intimated I was copying you (and then emailed me) know it, and an entire group where you have asked that your posts be made invisible knows it.

People KNOW this is a lie. You are lying.

I am glad this is out in the open. Now hopefully it can be done with from this point forward.

Christina Allen Page said...

(Also, I haven't deleted any comments, to be totally honest. I will not delete or censor ANY of your posts on the matter. I did have one of my posts hiccup and then post a minute later, maybe the same happened to yours? In any case, feel free to repost.)

Christina Allen Page said...

Alicia, I just got your "final" comment in email form, but see it has not yet posted to the blog. I am not sure why this is. I will look into it. Perhaps it needs to be split into two smaller posts?

Christina Allen Page said...

It's not even showing up in my comment queue. In any case, here it is:

_______________________

(Third try, perhaps?)


I think it is beyond ridiculous that you are still bringing these things up after all this time. Now that I have gained some wisdom from this entire situation, I feel it is counterproductive and in poor taste to even insinuate that someone is copying another without cold, hard, irrefutable proof. I now avoid that whenever possible, and have for some time.

I honestly don't know what more we could possibly still have to talk about especially with what little respect you've made clear you have for me, but this reads distinctly as if you and/or those who are feeding you information are intent on whipping up things which were rightfully dead.

To set the record straight, the SF Etsy email that Lynae provided to you and which I hear you've further provided in a name-calling livejournal post about me is from A YEAR AGO. September 17, 2010, to be exact. It was sent as a word of wisdom and potential support to a team member who was having some legitimate IP issues. Not only was that post motivated by support for a teammate, but it didn't name you, and was also posted to a team that—save for one—had no former knowledge or any way to guess who you were. That is in vast contrast to your numerous potshots and postings about me over the past couple of years, which were made to a varying audience of mutual friends and shared customers.

I understand that you have also used a screencap of your Google Analytics reports to try to prove that I have been visiting your site. Let me clear this up. Having my sites show up with a referral in no way means that I have personally visited your sites. By way of comparison, here are some screencaps from my own Google Analytics with similar referrals from your sites.

referrals from your blog
referrals from your site
referrals from your livejournal

I realize that this does not prove you have visited my site any more than your screencap proves that I have visited your site. However, I do find it interesting that even though I have never known or shipped to a customer located in Pikesville, MD, there are plenty of visits with high page-view counts from that location to my Etsy site. Even still, I am comfortable with recognizing that this isn't absolute proof that you have been visiting my site. I wish you could extend that same respect.

visits from Pikesville, MD


If you want to keep this alive, fine. But I am going to try to stay out of it and continue to move on as I had done. I have better and more positive things to do with my time than obsess over what a former friend/jewelry artist is doing or saying or making long after the conflict should have gone to its grave.

Christina Allen Page said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Christina Allen Page said...

And re: my "namecalling" livejournal post. If you wanna see what names I called, it's here, and public now: http://sihaya09.livejournal.com/1228776.html

It's basically what I wrote here. I didn't call names. I did say you were lying. Because you are.

And the reason for my posting the SFEtsy posting is because it addresses some of the things you have written about me elsewhere. It gave me the opportunity to a point-by-point takedown of the misinformation you've spread.

The reason for my timing here is that yes, I believe items in your newest update are uncomfortably close to mine. Again. And I decided I would rather have it in the open-- especially as I plan to re-release Halloween items that I've done for years, and you have begun to do later. It's as timely as ever, in my mind.

And refuting lies about one's character does not have a statute of limitations.

Christina Allen Page said...

(That deleted comment above my previous comment was indeed me. I added to it.)

Christina Allen Page said...

(In any case, it goes to show that if a comment is deleted, the comment goes, but the space with the comment's author still remains. So, no, I have not removed any of Alicia's comments.)

Christina Allen Page said...

Aha! It went to Blogger's spam filter, probably because she'd left 3 consecutive comments with close timestamps earlier in the post. Mystery solved, comment posted.

Kat said...

I truly don't understand why you are bringing this up. It's old, it's pointless, and to me it really seems like a personal attack rather then an "airing". Nothing you stated shows any sign of copying for over a year, and I just think this is dredging up old drama for the sake of name calling. She never called you a liar, but you you have called her that and more more then once. I think it's bad business practice. I've bought from both of you and had good experiences both times. I think all of this should be dropped and let go of, because honestly, it really makes me not want to buy from you again. It's petty.

Christina Allen Page said...

Kat, it only seems "old" because a lot of it has not been played out in the public. As for nothing being copied in the past year: the most obvious example is her spideweb agate pendant that went up in her most recent update, which is slightly changed from the near-exact dupe she sold last year of a pendant I've sold since 2008. I have called her a liar because she has told falsehoods in her comments here. If you would rather not buy from me because I chose to stand up and publicly refute the falsehoods she's laid against me in several venues... that's your prerogative, I suppose. I judged that it was better for me to clear the air and say no, I am not copying her, as she claims, than let it continue to fester unsaid.

Christina Allen Page said...

Also you're right-- to my knowledge, she's never outright called me a liar. However, she HAS called me a copycat, "lame," and a "copycat stalker"-- to people I respect, no less. This is not a case of me picking on her, but rather standing up for myself and setting the record straight.

Lynae said...

Lynae here. Since I was referenced by name earlier in the comments, I do feel the need to say something here.

Yes, I did share Alicia's email to the SFEtsy list. I had meant to share it when it was originally sent (Sept 2010) but, quite frankly, forgot. I remembered it a few days ago (but recalled it as being more recent) and told Chris about it after Chris spoke about her concerns over the Persephone Descending necklace.

I just thought that email from Alicia to the list was garishly dishonest, and, as she herself said earlier in these comments, was sent to a large group of people--only 1 of which would have any reason to doubt a single word of it.

I really don't see how this could be interpreted as a smear campaign. Christina is stating the facts as she knows them, and defending herself from long-standing accusations.

For the record, I don't know Alicia personally and have absolutely NO reason to think ill of her apart from this ongoing issue. I greatly admire her (original) work and will probably be buying something from her Halloween update.

Alicia Dabney said...

Chris,

Your issue with Tangle Web was yet another thing we discussed in our private discussion in November 2009. I considered that entire conversation resolved according to your comments as we summarized things that day. You either had your concerns addressed as your comments to me reflected, or you didn't have them addressed and lied to me. Either way, what year is it right now? I've continued that style of pendant in Halloweens since, and the one that went up with my Halloween update this week spent time in an art gallery and is the very same necklace carried over from last year, but with new photography. The original photo can be found in my 2010 Halloween set on Flickr, dated August 21, 2010.

----

It feels to me like you have trouble admitting to yourself and others that the timeline game can be played in both directions. Just as you can give a list of things that suggest I copied you, I can give a list of things that suggest you have copied me.

I want to preface this by making clear that even a timeline of events doesn't prove that you have copied me. It is merely to illustrate that this can easily go both ways. To be extra clear, the following timeline of events is not intended to prove that you intentionally copied my work. I'm illustrating a point here.

The following is a list of concerns and reports that were submitted to me by concerned customers over the past year. I have left off older reports and concerns which we addressed as part of our private discussion in November 2009.

• The first iteration that was noted of your acorns was after I released my first acorn necklaces in Autumn 2009.

• Your May 2010 Queen Bee amber challenge for TeamBPAL came up as an example of concern over wire wrapping style similarity to Nepthys I and II, Nuit, Throne of Isis, and Lampads from April 2010 and February 2010, respectively.

• Your fairy wings were brought up as more similar to the original designer's than mine, yet the first tip-off I received stated that you initially did not credit them—the very thing you took issue with me over in January 2010. Again, I did not personally confirm this fact, as I had already gone on hiatus from viewing your sites.

• I received multiple tips that your early resin-based cabs were a strikingly similar aesthetic and style to the acrylic cabs that I had formerly released for BPTP and my January 2010 Down the Rabbit Hole collection.

• Your Blessings wire piece was pegged as too similar to my Throne of Isis festoon of April 2010.

• I received a report that your wings gained colored resin very shortly after the first time I colored my wing creations in May 2010 with the Blue Litha festoon. My Flickr has the date taken for those photos, since I believe that one sold a while after it was released.
(Continued)

Alicia Dabney said...

• Your general wire style including the use of graduated silver spheres and silver sphere accents was an item of concern from 2-3 reports (each named a slightly varied list, with overlaps) as potentially derivative of my following pieces: Nepthys I and II, Nuit, Throne of Isis, Europa, Ganymede, Io which were released in April 2010 for the Egypt items and July 2010 for the moons.

• My Psychomanteum piece from May 2010 was the first iteration of colored LOS tints which, according to one source you began doing it very shortly after.

• Pumpkins are part and parcel of Halloween all across Etsy, including in the jewelry category. However it was pointed out to me that your pumpkins began as glass and mine have been based mostly (with few glass exceptions in tandem) on orange turquouse/howlite. A report says that in September 2010 you first started using gemstone-based pumpkin beads. My pumpkins also possessed spiral wire vines since September 2009, and from what I understand yours came later.

• My first witnessed mentions of my intentions to pick up PMC were made in December 2009 and again in January 2010. At least one of those mentions was made in my livejournal while you were still a reader; it's possible that you saw both since the timing of the second is very close to when you unfriended me. Two other mentions of my interest in PMC were on a public SFEtsy blog post in April 2010 which was widely promoted by mutual friends and by TeamBPAL for which you are a member. The other was in my original BPAL.org directory listing for TeamBPAL, where QuantumSpice listed mine as the template for all others to follow. You were the very next one in line for that thread.

• July 13, 2010 I received reports that you made a post about me in your livejournal.

• July 30, 2010 I received a report that you were talking of the addition of mica shimmer pigments to your wings; I used those pigments in my wings from the get-go in January 2010.

• January 14, 2011 I received concerns that your just-released bezel setting (the backplate shape and scalloped bezel, to be specific to the report) is similar to my bezels for Light and Dark (October 2010) which has a hand-drawn backplate stencil, and Psyche's Kiss (January 2011).

• January 15, 2011 I received a report of concern for your piece titled Inanna to my piece titled Alfheim (January 2, 2011). I did not see yours, but it was a report nonetheless.

• January 21, 2011 I learned that you had done a "wire collar"; I released two wire collars the week prior.

• September 1, 2011 I received reports that your new PMC leaves hold miniature leaves, vines, and sphere accents on them in a way that is strikingly similar to my April 2011 pieces titled By the Light of the Moon, Vila Queen, and Beltane.


I hope at this point that you can see how petty and questionable these arguments are, whether it's my list or your list. Even though I got to certain styles and concepts first, I am secure in acknowledging that being able to prove a timeline doesn't prove that you copied me.

I re-iterate the following from my original response to you:

"Now that I have gained some wisdom from this entire situation, I feel it is counterproductive and in poor taste to even insinuate that someone is copying another without cold, hard, irrefutable proof. I now avoid that whenever possible, and have for some time."

Christina Allen Page said...

"The first iteration that was noted of your acorns was after I released my first acorn necklaces in Autumn 2009."

I sold acorn necklaces and earrings in Autumn 2009. http://www.etsy.com/transaction/20389229

"Your May 2010 Queen Bee amber challenge for TeamBPAL came up as an example of concern over wire wrapping style similarity to Nepthys I and II, Nuit, Throne of Isis, and Lampads from April 2010 and February 2010, respectively."

Nepthys: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elementsandartifacts/4541539150/in/set-72157623780357887/
Nuit: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elementsandartifacts/4540905611/in/set-72157623780357887/
Throne of Isis: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elementsandartifacts/4545077726/in/set-72157623780357887
Lampads: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elementsandartifacts/4405206113/

Queen Bee: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sihaya09/4628919539/

Seriously? You think they look alike? Like, AT ALL? You're reaching.

"Your fairy wings were brought up as more similar to the original designer's than mine, yet the first tip-off I received stated that you initially did not credit them—the very thing you took issue with me over in January 2010."

Wrong. I credited at every turn, both in the item copy AND my promotions.
1: http://www.etsy.com/transaction/27602317
2: http://sihaya09.livejournal.com/1075708.html

ct'd

Christina Allen Page said...

"I received multiple tips that your early resin-based cabs were a strikingly similar aesthetic and style to the acrylic cabs that I had formerly released for BPTP and my January 2010 Down the Rabbit Hole collection."

The only similar thing is that they were images under preservatives- yours, glass. Mine - resin with additives, like crystal, etc. We even used different bezels.

"Your Blessings wire piece was pegged as too similar to my Throne of Isis festoon of April 2010."

Again -

Throne of Isis: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elementsandartifacts/4545077726/

Blessings: http://www.etsy.com/transaction/30660506

Reaching again.


"I received a report that your wings gained colored resin very shortly after the first time I colored my wing creations in May 2010 with the Blue Litha festoon. My Flickr has the date taken for those photos, since I believe that one sold a while after it was released."

Every single iteration of my Faery Wings has had colored resin. (http://www.etsy.com/transaction/27602317 was from the first batch of four posted.)

Christina Allen Page said...

"Your general wire style including the use of graduated silver spheres and silver sphere accents was an item of concern from 2-3 reports..."

This is common in wire wrapping. Many designers, including designers you've excuted tutorials from do this. It is a quite common embellishment, as a look through Etsy will tell you.

"My Psychomanteum piece from May 2010 was the first iteration of colored LOS tints which, according to one source you began doing it very shortly after."

Liver of sulfur + ammonia is among the most common patinas out there. It's in every single metalsmithing book I have ever read. It's been done for ages. It's published as a "basic knowledge" thing in wire-wrapping magazines. This, again, is a basic, common thing.

"Pumpkins are part and parcel of Halloween all across Etsy, including in the jewelry category. However it was pointed out to me that your pumpkins began as glass and mine have been based mostly (with few glass exceptions in tandem) on orange turquouse/howlite. A report says that in September 2010 you first started using gemstone-based pumpkin beads. My pumpkins also possessed spiral wire vines since September 2009, and from what I understand yours came later."

Actually, I did glass pumpkins before you did glass pumpkins, and we did stone pumpkins in the same year. You used howlite, I used magnesite. I also did dyed serpentine. The few I did with spiral vines looked like this: http://www.etsy.com/transaction/33627189. They are markedly different from the ones you have released.

Christina Allen Page said...

"My first witnessed mentions of my intentions to pick up PMC were made in December 2009 and again in January 2010. At least one of those mentions was made in my livejournal while you were still a reader; it's possible that you saw both since the timing of the second is very close to when you unfriended me. Two other mentions of my interest in PMC were on a public SFEtsy blog post in April 2010 which was widely promoted by mutual friends and by TeamBPAL for which you are a member. The other was in my original BPAL.org directory listing for TeamBPAL, where QuantumSpice listed mine as the template for all others to follow. You were the very next one in line for that thread."

We still had been planning in the same time-frame. We still released our first items at about the same time..PMC is a medium, at any rate. It is not the same thing as copying designs. I even said multiple times that though I released PMC leaves before you did, I did not believe you were copying me in doing so.

"July 13, 2010 I received reports that you made a post about me in your livejournal."

Yep. You'd suddenly begun to do "guess the gemstone" contests, which I had been doing as a semi-regular promo. And if you look at our individual "guess the gemstones" post, you'll see that you followed my formatting almost exactly.

Christina Allen Page said...

"July 30, 2010 I received a report that you were talking of the addition of mica shimmer pigments to your wings; I used those pigments in my wings from the get-go in January 2010."

As above, the very first iteration of my wings included mica shimmer pigments. Yours showed up more thickly, I believe, because you use Diamond Glaze, which does not diffuse the pigment as much as resin does (I decided against Diamond Glaze in my own work because it is not waterproof). I have since found ways to get deeper color, but my wings have ALWAYS used mica pigments, purchased from FusionBeads.

"January 14, 2011 I received concerns that your just-released bezel setting (the backplate shape and scalloped bezel, to be specific to the report) is similar to my bezels for Light and Dark (October 2010) which has a hand-drawn backplate stencil, and Psyche's Kiss (January 2011)."

There are three kinds of bezel wire in production: plain, scalloped, and gallery. Three. To my knowledge, I have used all three, and you have used all three.

As for Light and Dark (http://www.flickr.com/photos/elementsandartifacts/5165764598/) and Psyche's Kiss (http://www.flickr.com/photos/elementsandartifacts/5368473234/)... I can only say that maybe they were talking about my Stormclouds over Marrakesh (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sihaya09/5355189021/). The template for that I used is readily available: http://www.cooltools.us/Jewelry-Shape-Template-Mehndi-Frames-p/tmp-257.htm. And FYI, though you may have hand-drawn the teardrop backplate for Psyche's Kiss, it, too is readily available and common (http://www.cooltools.us/Jewelry-Shape-Template-Teardrops-p/tmp-204.htm)

Christina Allen Page said...

"January 15, 2011 I received a report of concern for your piece titled Inanna to my piece titled Alfheim (January 2, 2011). I did not see yours, but it was a report nonetheless."

Inanna: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sihaya09/5355188943/

Alfheim: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elementsandartifacts/5328225363/

The only thing in common is that they are stones within a hammered and embellished frame. Funny you should bring this up, though, because I got a report that your "Anemoi - Boreas" looked a lot like my Inanna. I didn't think so, though, and told the querent that.

"January 21, 2011 I learned that you had done a "wire collar"; I released two wire collars the week prior."

The first wire collar I can think of doing was my Lunula piece, which I think was in March 2010: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sihaya09/4470555073/ with a sterling version in April: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sihaya09/4484864059/.

Despite the fact that my "wire collars" predate yours, I don't think your collars look like anything I have done.

"September 1, 2011 I received reports that your new PMC leaves hold miniature leaves, vines, and sphere accents on them in a way that is strikingly similar to my April 2011 pieces titled By the Light of the Moon, Vila Queen, and Beltane."

This is because we both used the tutorial from Anna Mazon / Drakonaria, in which she teaches how to make those little leaves. (Here is an example of HER work using the technique - http://www.etsy.com/transaction/350152950)

I'd tried to do little leaf embellishments before (http://www.etsy.com/transaction/45481846) but purchased her tutorial because her leaf embellishments are AWESOME, and if she was willing to teach, I wanted to learn.


Overall, I think my list shows MUCH more concerning similarities than yours, and full of correct information, not misinformation.

"Now that I have gained some wisdom from this entire situation, I feel it is counterproductive and in poor taste to even insinuate that someone is copying another without cold, hard, irrefutable proof. I now avoid that whenever possible, and have for some time."

...and yet you just, um, did? In those two comments I've been replying to? 'Cause yeah. You just tried to post "examples" where *I* appeared to be copying *you.* So, uh. Yeah. Good luck with that.

Christina Allen Page said...

Oh, and another thing. From the very beginning, I have considered the bulk of my resin work to be collage for jewelry, preserved under a waterproof barrier.

This was in my very first batch of resin pendants:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sihaya09/4418459056/in/set-72157615387953234

It is not the same thing as a picture under a piece of glass, anybody should be able to see that. Sometimes I do images with crystal. Sometimes I use findings to make a collage. Sometimes I do images and words. Or a combination of any of the above.

They are not akin to this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/elementsandartifacts/4310483049/in/set-72157623175161539/

Another big reach.

Christina Allen Page said...

And yes, I know you tried to make it "explicitly clear" that your timeline, riddled with stretches and misinformation wasn't intending to show that I had copied you. So, what other purpose was it supposed to have, honestly? Other than trying to discredit my (imo, valid) examples?

Alicia Dabney said...

Listen, I can tell you're caught up in this. My point was that a timeline is simply not sufficient to prove copying and you illustrated my point brilliantly. Now turn that mirror on yourself and remember that there are two sides to every story. Everyone knows that.

Further, there are numerous instances here where you are misconstruing my words and conveniently leaving out context. Just one example rather than all of them, because this is getting ridiculous. Oh, wait. It was ridiculous from the start.


Your statement:
"Claim: I copied your banner redesign.
Truth: Go look at your banner. Now look at mine. Do they look... remotely similar to you?"

My statement from my original response, bolding for emphasis:
"I expressed directly to you that I had many concerns of my own with regard to your work, including but not limited to uncomfortable similarities, identical supplies (dismissed by logic), concepts, and interesting timing of redesigns (NOT the designs themselves, but sudden new banner redesigns and shiny new cards in possibly questionable succession to items of mine or mentions of my intentions toward such)."

Just in case you're missing the point again: I didn't say that you copied my banner design. I said that when I mentioned something like wanting to redesign my banner (among other things), you followed me with an announcement of similar plans. Repeat, repeat.

If you haven't noticed, I'm not too interested in fighting with you. This isn't the first time I've seen you use baseless attacks and textwalls to try to bully someone. Anyone who can read this thread is more than capable of drawing their own conclusions, and I am perfectly happy to let my work and my record speak for themselves. As far as I am concerned, this is a done deal and is as dead as it should have been a year or two ago.

Christina Allen Page said...

"My point was that a timeline is simply not sufficient to prove copying and you illustrated my point brilliantly. "

So, your logic is that just because the timeline you wrote out was full of bullshit and misinformation, MY timeline is therefore invalid? The one I put up with accurate dates, links, and pictures? Ooooohkay. That doesn't sound like sound logic to me at all. (Just FYI, the next time you want to put up "things you've heard," you might want to, you know, verify facts before you post them online.)

"Listen, I can tell you're caught up in this."

Yes, I'm the only one "caught up." Because you haven't left a bundle of comments, including a *fifteen point* timeline of bullshit and misinformation. *Fifteen points* which were *longer than my original post*! And this is your... um, eighth long comment. No, you're not caught up at all.

"Just in case you're missing the point again: I didn't say that you copied my banner design. I said that when I mentioned something like wanting to redesign my banner (among other things), you followed me with an announcement of similar plans. Repeat, repeat. "

Wait, so, like, I decided to change my banner to reflect my work more accurately, and I got new business cards (gasp!) and you actually thought that was *about you.* You do, or you would not have brought it up in your post about how you thought I was copying you.

But no, you're not "caught up." You're wise and above this. I get it.

You've called me a bully now twice. I guess when all you've got is misinformation... I guess "bully" is what you've got left to cling to. So you can call me a bully all you'd like. I still have facts to rely on.

acousticdryad said...

Good grief. Chris, I'm glad you are standing up for yourself, because clearly this is something that someone cannot admit fault to and willing to just spread lies and accusations to try and win at whatever cost.

You have my support.

the ineffable b said...

This is just frakking ridiculous. As someone who has known you for a while, you have never been anything but original, professional and honest.

Sounds like you're dealing with a bully here and someone who just won't admit they're wrong. As an artist, I find that I do glean inspiration from other artists I run into and my work reflects it from time to time. But looking at the two shops, any question of who was biting of whom was solved for me. Especially when I've seen that spider necklace before and went WTF??? Isn't that a Sihaya?

Stay strong and know that at least in my book you're a gal with talent and integrity.

PS- OMGWTF never go in on a timeline/facts debate with a Virgo!

oneiroelpida said...

This all seems honestly insane (in general, not on your part)... but hey, I got to see lots of pretty pictures of jewelry that I'm sad I missed in the past so I can't complain.

Still, I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. Honestly at this point, you've been as honest as you could be and I'm going to continue losing all my money whenever you do your updates. ;) Don't let it get you down anymore. Your creations are your creations. You have an amazing variety and reasonable prices that no one can hope to touch. Plus, your customer service is excellent. There's no reason to concern yourself over what another person is saying...those who believe other people on stuff like that will likely venture to your shop and be caught by the pretties and you'll get a sale anyway.

RowanDeVoe said...

I hear you loud and clear! Have been so lucky to watch your jewelry skills grow(I have read about things your are attempting, seen the 'well, that didn't work' as well as, 'YES!' and they continue to awe and enchant. Yay for your Fall pieces-so much goodness!

Wishing you all the best!
xoxo!
merle